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WOLF WOLFMAN

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Articles Posted: 588  Links Seeded: 196
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States Opposing Health Care

Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT
us-news, health-care, washington-post, arizona, virginia, 34-states
By Wolf Wolfman

by Poldavo (Alex) a Creative Commons license.

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Virginia

Washington Post Article

“Virginia is in the process of passing a bill that would make it illegal for the government to require individuals to purchase health insurance. Thirty-four states are weighing similar legislation to block the individual mandate, which is an element of bills that have passed both the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives.”

Arizona and others:

The following is from the Tenth Amendment Center :

“Arizona's legislation passed as a proposed constitutional amendment, is to be submitted to the voters in 2010. This will put a proposal on the 2010 ballot which would constitutionally override any law, rule or regulation that requires individuals or employers to participate in any particular health care system.

HCR2014, if approved by voters, also would prohibit any fine or penalty on anyone or any company for deciding to purchase health care directly. Doctors and health care providers would remain free to accept those funds and provide those services.

Finally, it would overrule anything that prohibits the sale of private health insurance in Arizona.

Five other states — Indiana, Minnesota, New Mexico, North Dakota and Wyoming — are considering similar initiatives for their 2010 ballots.”

The Federal Government passed a “real ID” law. It was supposed to be implemented by all the states. 25 states refused to implement it. Barack Obama is said to be in favor repealing the law.

The following is from Wikipedia:

“As of March 2010, 25 states have introduced legislation which would declare certain provisions of any proposed national health care bill to be null and void within the state.”

The commerce clause has been used to justify Federal legislation. It failed in the case of “gun free zone”, and succeeded in others.

Commerce clause

According to the Tenth Amendment, the government of the United States has the power to regulate only matters delegated to it by the Constitution. Other powers are reserved to the states, or to the people (and even the states cannot alienate some of these). In modern times, the Commerce Clause has become one of the most frequently-used sources of Congress's power, and thus its interpretation is very important in determining the allowable scope of federal government.

In the twentieth century, complex economic challenges of the Great Depression triggered a reevaluation in both Congress and the Supreme Court of the use of Commerce Clause powers to maintain a strong national economy.

In Wickard v. Filburn (1942), in the context of the Second World War, the Court ruled that federal regulations of wheat production could constitutionally be applied to wheat grown for "home consumption" on a farm—that is, wheat grown to be fed to farm animals or otherwise consumed on the farm. The rationale was that a farmer's growing "his own wheat" can have a substantial cumulative effect on interstate commerce, because if all farmers were to exceed their production quotas, a significant amount of wheat would either not be sold on the market or would be bought from other producers. Hence, in the aggregate, if farmers were allowed to consume their own wheat, it would affect the interstate market in wheat.

In Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority (1985), the Court changed the analytic framework to be applied in Tenth Amendment cases. Prior to the Garcia decision, the determination of whether there was state immunity from federal regulation turned on whether the state activity was "traditional" for or "integral" to the state government. The Court noted that this analysis was "unsound in principle and unworkable in practice," and rejected it without providing a replacement. The Court's holding declined to set any formula to provide guidance in future cases. Instead, it simply held "...we need go no further than to state that we perceive nothing in the overtime and minimum-wage requirements of the FLSA ... that is destructive of state sovereignty or violative of any constitutional provision." It left to future courts how best to determine when a particular federal regulation may be "destructive of state sovereignty or violative of any constitutional provision."

In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject.

Most recently, the Commerce Clause was cited in the 2005 decision Gonzales v. Raich. In this case, a California woman sued the Drug Enforcement Administration after her medical marijuana crop was seized and destroyed by Federal agents. Medical marijuana was explicitly made legal under California state law by Proposition 215; however, marijuana is prohibited at the federal level by the Controlled Substances Act. Even though the woman grew the marijuana strictly for her own consumption and never sold any, the Supreme Court stated that growing one's own marijuana affects the interstate market of marijuana. The theory was that the marijuana could enter the stream of interstate commerce, even if it clearly wasn't grown for that purpose and it was unlikely ever to happen (the same reasoning as in the Wickard v. Filburn decision). It therefore ruled that this practice may be regulated by the federal government under the authority of the Commerce Clause.

Secession may become a possibility at some point.

People may leave the country.

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  • Groups: Democrat Watch, FOX NEWS, Free Market, Free Thinkers, Legal Eagles, Power to The People!, Reagan Conservatives, rightwingers, The Conservative Vine, The Sovereign States of America
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  • Public Discussion (38)
Wolf Wolfman

Barack Obama's, Nancy Pelosi's, and Harry Reid's grand delusions are being opposed. There is a possibilty that Rush Limbaugh may leave this country. It's not what he said about going to Costa Rica, it's what I have picked up over a long period of time.

Rick Perry talked about Texas' secession, but made no immediate recommendations. That doesn't say that change is impossible.

  • 3 votes
#1 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:52 AM EDT
Nick Ford

You realize these state laws won't mean anything, right?

  • 9 votes
#1.1 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:17 PM EDT
joe-1280782

That's not necessarily the case Nick

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/01/15/federal-law-is-always-supreme-right/

The states were very concerned about the usurpation of power by the federal government. There was uneasiness and suspicion among many people and espoused by the anti-federalists. It was believed the Constitution could be manipulated in too many ways without the addition of a Bill of Rights and the final amendment ratified by the state conventions was the 10th Amendment. “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, or to the people.”

In order to be supreme, laws must be Constitutional and there are only specific, delegated powers that fall under that supremacy. Beyond those specific powers supremacy defaults to the states or to the people. Our heritage is not built upon a supreme federal government no matter what the structure may look like today and no matter how much progressive nationalists today would like us to believe it is. Study our history and carefully listen to the words of both the founding generations and the modern progressives. Although their arguments can, on the surface, sound as if they are fundamentally correct you will find more often they will not stand the scrutiny of critical thinking.

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:41 PM EDT
Wolf Wolfman

Nick Ford #1.1...I think the outcome remains to be seen. What I realize has nothing to do with the outcome.

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT
mike lonkouski

You know you are opposed to the Will of the People when you see stuff like this. The states are acting in advance, to oppose the very idea being proposed in Congress.

This is a legislative equivalent to a second civil war.

States Rights', you gotta love it!

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:07 PM EDT
Wolf Wolfman

Just the fact that Virginia has stepped up to the plate is gratifying to me. When 34 states consider legislation; where there's smoke, there's fire.

  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:29 PM EDT
mike lonkouski

Amen to that!

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:48 PM EDT
Nick Ford

In fact, in this case, where there is smoke, there are idiots.

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:55 PM EDT
mike lonkouski

In fact, in this case, where there is smoke, there are idiots.

That doesn't really roll off the tongue, or carry the same gravitas.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:59 PM EDT
Wolf Wolfman

Thanks; I needed that!

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:04 PM EDT
tenman07

Greetings, Mike,

How's it going?

You know you are opposed to the Will of the People when you see stuff like this. The states are acting in advance, to oppose the very idea being proposed in Congress.

This is a legislative equivalent to a second civil war.

First of all, multiple polls from Rasmussen, Gallop, FoxNews and others show that the majority of Americans want some kind of health reform, but not this bill. The majority thinks they should scrap this bill and start over, and focus on jobs and the double digit unemployment.

In fairness to you, friend, there are also multiple polls including Huffington Post and MSNBC that indicate the majority of those polled support health care reform and also the public option. The point being, that polls are skewed and vary greatly depending on how the question is asked, and if it is done live, via telephone, or in a newspaper survey, etc. You can ask 5000 people in a very leftist or conservative place and get radically different results.

I think the best indicator of what the American people want and don't want was the Massachusetts upset -- this was huge, and very significant not only because the Democrats outnumber the Republicans 3 to 1 in that state, but the fact that it is the most liberal of all states, and it was the independents and Democrats who aren't on welfare and then the 25% of conservatives who came out and spanked Martha Coakley the child molester supporter, for whom Obama, Kerry and Clinton all campaigned and defended as a good candidate.

The biggest indicator in Massachusetts is that they already have socialized medicine and it is a disaster. The people are fed up with drunken-Kennedy-out-of-control spending, back-room union bribes and sweetheart deals to buy votes, and the lack of transparency.

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:12 PM EDT
George-369262

It is time for a realignment, as well as downsizing, of governmental power in the USA...the federal government concept upon which the nation was founded, with a division of power between the federal government and the states, since the New Deal, has morphed into an increasingly powerful defacto national government. This national government is currently making a bid for supreme power over the populace, and is being strongly resisted by the right...

Virtually everything the current Administration has done during it's 16 months in power has been to not only grow government, but to aid it's political allies. The current fuss has absolutely nothing to do with "Health Care", and everything to do with power, and growing both government and public sector union rolls and dues.

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:30 PM EDT
Truth Hurts-840829

You realize these state laws won't mean anything, right?

LOL

the fed works for the states there is nothing the fed can do if the states refuse to obey.

the feds have no power to do one damn thing about the states.

except back off

see real ID act

the states told feds to piss off on that issue also

:)

  • 2 votes
#1.12 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:41 PM EDT
Mic Hudson

A "Very" insightful observation George!

  • 2 votes
#1.13 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:49 PM EDT
mike lonkouski

tenman07

The point being, that polls are skewed and vary greatly depending on how the question is asked, and if it is done live, via telephone, or in a newspaper survey, etc. You can ask 5000 people in a very leftist or conservative place and get radically different results.

I concur Sir!

The biggest indicator in Massachusetts is that they already have socialized medicine and it is a disaster. The people are fed up with drunken-Kennedy-out-of-control spending, back-room union bribes and sweetheart deals to buy votes, and the lack of transparency.

Again, I am in complete agreement.

Great post!

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:51 PM EDT
mike lonkouski

George-369262

Everything you say is true. We need to rewind the government back about 50 years.

We need a revolutionary President, a Constitutionally Motivated Revolutionary President.

Ron Paul is my best guess right now, but the Fed's would kill him before they would let him do it.

We are in a very deep hole my friend, and I don't know if we can ever get out.

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:56 PM EDT
frostyone

Virginia is once again leading the way!!!

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:05 AM EDT
Wolf Wolfman

frostyone...Virginia has been a leader since Colonial days. I spent a little over a year in Williamsburg, and it's a fantastic town to this day. You can be proud of your state.

  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT
frostyone

Oh I love going to Williamsburg and Jonestown but then again I'm a sucker for history. I can't wait to take the kids over there and let them see what life was like before electricity. Not to mention letting them see how small the Santa Marie really is.

    #1.18 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:41 PM EDT
    Davy-755715

    States Rights', you gotta love it!

    Until it comes down to something an individual wants, or figures he's owed. I doubt if you'll see many "tiny government" conservatives when it comes to "their" socialist security and medicare. Then, it's gimmee, gimmee, gimmee!

      #1.19 - Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:06 AM EDT
      mike lonkouski

      Bull@!$%#!

      That's just what you tell yourself because you want to believe that conservatives and free thinkers are slaves to the government dole as you are.

      • 1 vote
      #1.20 - Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:49 PM EDT
      Reply
      etootoo001Deleted
      Wolf Wolfman

      etootoo001...This was probably an advertisement deleted by Newsvine.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#3 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT
      joe-1280782

      Good Seed Wolfie for Picking up on the Tenth Amendment..Yes, I think #3 was

      • 4 votes
      #3.1 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT
      Wolf Wolfman

      joe...The Virginia law and the Arizona amendment to Arizona's constitution could become test cases. If they are decided in favor of the Federal Government, there are other options for the states.

      It's interesting to see that 34 states have shown an interest in derailing Federal health care laws. It tells me that Federal government health care is not as desirable as Barack Obama and company would try to make you believe. Barack Obama and company cite cherry picked polls, which could be wrong, to sell their ideas.

      • 4 votes
      #3.2 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:17 PM EDT
      joe-1280782

      "Federal government health care is not as desirable as Barack Obama and company would try to make you believe."

      He would also have us believe in Santa Claus,The Tooth Fairy..The Easter Bunny,and the fact that the Government knows what's best for us

      • 3 votes
      #3.3 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:10 PM EDT
      Reply
      Mary-471639

      New Mexico?????? I live here and haven't heard a peep of that.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#4 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT
      Wolf Wolfman

      It's in the Tenth Amendment Center link at the bottom of the first section.

      • 2 votes
      #4.1 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:56 PM EDT
      joe-1280782

      There are a lot of Rocks in New Mexico though..I've been there..Hope your not hiding out under one

      • 1 vote
      #4.2 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:07 PM EDT
      Wolf Wolfman

      I did look around to try to confirm that New Mexico is considering legislation against Federal health care.

      If anyone finds anything, please let us know.

      • 2 votes
      #4.3 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:33 PM EDT
      Reply
      Evil Miss Alice

      See, this is where I start seeing the larger problems with this health care reform. Not that I'm opposed to reform; I think there is a lot that is wrong with health insurance companies, and I do not believe that this market will straighten itself out anytime soon. However, there is no reason to force insurance onto people who do not want it. It's their life, their choice. Maybe it's messed up to not provide insurance for your children, but when we are only talking about the individual here, I say it should be up to them.

      Then again, I am opposed to anti-smoking laws, tax increases on fattening foods, and the illegalization of marijuana. I don't smoke anything myself, much less pot, but I think that as long as you know the potential repercussions of your actions, you should be permitted to do as you like so long as no other person can come to harm as a result.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#5 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:12 PM EDT
      mike lonkouski

      Liberty works!

      We should use it more!

      • 4 votes
      #5.1 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:27 PM EDT
      Wolf Wolfman

      Really this is what all this President's legislation is about; reducing Liberty. Teddy Kennedy chose his health care. If Barack Obama gets his way, he will choose your health care; not you.

      • 2 votes
      #5.2 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:56 PM EDT
      joe-1280782

      #5 Evil Miss Alice

      Sounds like a freedom Lover to me...Git er boys..We can't be havin' any of that Freedom stuff in these here parts

      • 1 vote
      #5.3 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:42 PM EDT
      Evil Miss Alice

      Nope, none of that here! If it's not the democrats restricting it for our own good, it's the republicans restricting it for the good of our capitalist national security. Oh, and because the Bible says so *eye roll*. This country is starting to suck.

      • 1 vote
      #5.4 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:07 PM EDT
      joe-1280782

      Didn't the Jefferson Airplane write a song about you

      • 2 votes
      #5.5 - Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:14 PM EDT
      Reply
      Wolf Wolfman

      Everyone:
      I appreciate your interest.
      Barack Obama and company truly want to impose their beliefs on you.
      If you want government health care, move to a state that has it. Massachusetts has it, and I believe Hawaii has it.
      What's wrong with letting each state decide whether they want government health care in their state?
      Why does everyone's liberty have to be taken away? I'll tell you why. Barack Obama thinks your liberty is unimportant, and that HIS ideas are. He's a narcissist.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#6 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
      Evil Miss Alice

      Rather like many political leaders in the world. This is one of the reasons I no longer call myself a democrat, despite sharing many similar social views: they would force us to adhere to their worldview, just as do hardcore Christians, in the name of saving us from ourselves. To Obama, even though many people do not want to purchase health care, they still must be forced to purchase it for their own good. It's looking like a bit of a hero complex from my end: he HAS to save us all. But, not everybody wants to be saved, and I believe that in America, the land of the free, we have to respect those wishes.

        #6.1 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:49 PM EDT
        Reply
        Wolf Wolfman

        Comment with a link to Arizona Governor Brewer's letter to Barack Obama March 10, 2010.

          Reply#7 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:57 PM EDT
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